The Washington Independent - Latest Comments in This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Walter — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:42:09 -0000

This reply is really late and since Obama has been president for almost 2 months a lot has changed but this is what I think about those 10 things you are arguing about

1. We can't leave Iraq before our job is done and expect that everything will be fine, and that they won't follow us home

2. I can't think of anything to say here

3. well, i think that there is global warming, but i don't think it is our fault, and i think that the government is trying to use this to scare us into changing our lives by buying things that are supposed to help the environment, the world is always changing and there is nothing we can do to stop it's natural ups and downs, nature changes the temperature on its own more than we do, global warming is a scam to make the government money.

4. Oil is useful, there is plenty of oil left, and on our own land too. liberals are trying to save the precious animals by telling us we cant drill in certain places.

5. I am an American so i don't know why people in other countries hate us so much. i do know that China hates us partially because of the stimulus bill, though. If i lived in a different country, i wouldn't hate America, and if i did it wouldnt be because we are the best or because our armies are where they need to be. it would be because our values have changed. for instance we are spending so much money on the environment, entertainment, so called "stimulus", animal protection, stem cell research, abortion, and other things rather than helping other people.

6. I don't understand how this is relavent.

7. I don't know where or how Obama and Mccain got the money they did, but so far w/Obama we spent over a trillion dollars of borrowed money on a bill that most of Congress did not even read

8. I believe the Correct term is Socialism

1. I do not see how this is important

2. this is really important, they cannot take away our right to bear arms, it is unconstitutional, but that hasn't stopped the government on other things

Also i must comment, why did you keep using the same words: ignorant, Misinformed, etc.? I am sorry this is very late, but i must also add that George Bush had a higher approval rating 2 months into his presidency then Obama has now

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

ehutch — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:46:54 -0000

one more thing. im tired of hearing some right wingers trying to blame the democrats for this economic downturn. the truth is the republican philosophy of DEREGULATION is what ultimately caused this mess. these regulations were put in place following the GREAT DEPRESSION to ensure it would never happen again. these regulations served its purpose until they began getting stripped away, one by one, by the republican controlled gov't. these regulations, had they still been in place, would have prevented the situation we currently find ourselves in. these are the FACTS. remember, the democrats had been out of power for many years until recently.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

ehutch — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:12:53 -0000

its amazing that some voters who consider the economy to be their #1 issue decided that JOHN MCCAIN was their man, lol. maybe they figure PALIN would solve this economic mess. i hear she can see a bank from her house.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Jared — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:59:01 -0000

oh and sorry to reply twice to the same comment, but I missed your misrepresentation of abortion. It's not the same as shooting people, because when you murder someone they are ALIVE first. There is no scientific reason to believe that a fetus is capable of life, it is a parasite by definition and unable to sustain itself until late into the pregnancy. Just because a fetus CAN be a child, doesnt mean that it IS a child.

Fetuses aren't children, they are fetuses. The sooner you can make that distinction, the sooner you can hold an informed opinion on the matter. I am a perfectly caring human being and I know the difference between murder and abortion.

I am personally of the belief that if you are not a pregnant woman, you don't deserve an opinion on abortion.

Also, this isn't anything against Andrew although it probably applies...but how can you be both pro-life AND pro-war? Are you also pro-death penalty? The entire pro-life side of the Republican party is illogical....

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Jared — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:47:57 -0000

I would rather have a President that loved hookers than a President that doesn't know Africa is a continent (like Mrs. Palin).

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Jared — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:46:04 -0000

Well, the issues with the voucher system is that they cause huge class divisions. Poor people can not get as good an education as rich people under the system, and that only makes it that much harder for them to get a job later on and pay for their children's vouchers. It's not so much about making the poor poorer as it is about making the rich richer. Basically, under that kind of system you would have to have money already to make more money (which is obviously unfair to most people).

And again, you demonstrate that you have no knowledge of how taxation actually works. It's not like "rich people, find some hobos and give them money or else you go to jail". Rich people are giving money to EVERYBODY, including themselves, to pay for services that EVERYBODY, including themselves, takes advantage of. Social Security, medicare, roads, schools, etc. The list goes on. How is it fair to force someone making $10,000 a year to foot society's bill, people who are so poor that they have to choose between paying taxes and eating, when Joe the CEO is making $300 million for driving the economy into the ground would have no issues putting in his share? Your ideology doesn't make sense morally or economically.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Jared — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:34:32 -0000

Your understanding of history here is lacking. In the times of segregation, the ideologies of the democrats and republicans were basically reversed. The only thing that is similar about democrats now and democrats 75 years ago is the name. This is especially true when you go back further, to the Whigs and even to the Democratic-Republican parties. If we're going to start labelling people based on what their ancestors did, this whole country is in a lot of trouble.

That was the only thing I noticed here though, I actually agree with your main point. Race shouldn't matter. The only reason race is a factor at ALL is because of the irresponsible mainstream media on both sides of the party lines.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Jared — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:22:21 -0000

Youre right, his personal attacks on you are just as irresponsible as the misinformed ignorant post you made. It doesn't matter if you have a rebuttal, the point is that your rebuttals were wrong. "I said it in a serious tone with a straight face, so you must take me seriously" is not a valid argument.

And yeah, why should someone attack Rush Limbaugh? He's just a racist homophobic drug addict that happens to have a couple million listeners....it's not like he's making a negative influence on a huge portion of our population or anything. If that's not helping the world, I don't know WHAT is.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Jared — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:20:15 -0000

1. It doesn't matter what Iraq is NOW, the fact is that the American public was lied to about Iraq. If Osama bin Laden was in Iraq, we should have been told that. Not "Saddam is going to kill us all if we don't get him now!" I'm not really arguing on Iraq though, we need to fix the mess we made ASAP and I don't think you will find any sane person who wants to stay there a day longer than we need to. McCain's "100 years of war in Iraq" gaffe really dissuaded me from voting for him. The only thing that war generates is the guarantee that our children will grow up to see the same kind of violence.

2. Even your source claims that the plans are not comparable. Besides the fact that they are BOTH beneficial for the economy, they conveniently ignore the effects of their plans in the long run. Obama's progressive plan is aimed at creating more jobs, and getting people off the streets. McCain's is focused solely on numbers- with his plan, it doesn't matter who is making the money, as long as it is still flowing.

3. Your ignorance on this subject is astounding. There has been a scientific consensus on the subject for years. The controversy surrounding global warming and the environmental crisis is not a scientific one. Your second point (B) is laughable. The Sun isn't the only arbiter of temperature, are you aware of how much energy humans produce? The problem isn't that the temperature is raising, it's how much the temperature is raising by, and the fact that there is no reason to believe it will ever fluctuate with the infrastructure that we have in place. Please do some more research before making baseless, blatantly false claims like this one. Someone who doesn't know better may think you are actually serious.

4. Oil is extremely useful, nobody could argue against that. However, it causes a ton of problems, most notably forcing us to maintain diplomacy with countries that harbor terrorists and commit horrible civil rights violations (Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran etc).

I would like a source that can seriously claim that Hydrogen power/other alternative energy sources are as inefficient as you claim. The reasons for inefficiency are because of limited technology- which is being revamped by the day and can easily be in place within the next decade. Keep in mind that these sources are both 100% renewable, completely safe, beneficial to the environment and can only be improved upon. I would say that those are several pretty strong incentives to switch, and that was after only about 1.5 seconds of thinking of reasons to switch from oil.

Also, speaking of inefficient, the plans for American offshore drilling are so horrible that I can't believe that you'd suggest them here. Let me quote a SOURCE (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008...

"It would take at least a decade for oil companies to obtain permits, procure equipment, and do the exploration necessary to get the oil out of the ground, most industry analysts say. And even then, they add, the amount of new oil produced would probably be too small to significantly affect world oil prices."

So basically, with the Republican offshore drilling program, we get to waste taxpayer money AND irreparably destroy the environment! How could we argue against that?

5. "People hate us because we're the best" "People hate us because of our freedoms" etc are some of the most blatantly ignorant lines I've ever heard. People don't hate us because we're free, they hate us because our armies travel the world destroying things, interfering with politics around the globe, we destabilize entire regions of the world and then we force our culture down their throats. Please, refer to the huge amounts of support that the Iraqi shoe-thrower has gotten for more information here. Needless to say, if this is what you really believe then you need to open your eyes.

6. Fear is not necessary at all. How could you even suggest such a ridiculous concept? Do you think the founding fathers drafted the Constitution because they were scared? You don't seem to understand the difference between "fear" and "vigilance". Obama didn't play on fears because his campaign managers were smart enough to realize that people were getting sick of Rovian politics, using fear to promote candidates that were obviously unqualified got old to the American people. Fear is divisive, it is only used when one group wants to exercise control over another. Vigilance, on the other hand, unites us all.

7. Have you ever stopped to think that people who disagree with you may not have been "brainwashed", but might just see a different side of the problem? Your ignorance shines even more brightly here. His point is that McCain wasn't open about his campaign, with 35% of his funds from "undisclosed" persons. Whether or not he was doing something shady doesn't matter, it just makes you wonder why he chose to hide such an important part of his campaign. Americans are finally starting to get tired of being kept in the dark. If you want to be elected, you should have to answer to the voters. It's a simple issue of ethics. This problem was magnified when Mrs. Palin decided to spend campaign money on $150,000 of expensive clothing, which is more than most American families will make off of 3 years of salary.

8. It's not "stealing money". Obama's plan is to slightly increase taxes that ALREADY EXIST, and only for the smallest amount of people. If that is really what you believe, then you can accuse EVERY president of "stealing money" from people, and you can equally accuse McCain of wanting to steal from people. Please stop being so ignorant when making claims. You bring up several good points but they are so clouded with misinformation and bias that it is really difficult to take you seriously.

Other:
1. I also agree that space exploration needs more funding, however given our current situation I think that there are more important issues to take care of.

2. I also am a 100% advocate of the right to bear arms, I agree.

I know that this reply is a little late, but I just stumbled upon this article today. I don't care if anyone replies, of if you, Andrew, ever sees it. I just wanted to vent and I saw this ignorant, misinformed post and I wanted to right some wrongs :)

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

gray — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:44:11 -0000

thanks for this, I appreciate the effort.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Andrew — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:12:50 -0000

Do you mean Chinese or Asian?

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

mike — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:40:05 -0000

What about a map of just chinese voters?

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Andrew — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:59:36 -0000

Good technique, once you fail to come up with a rebuttal you resort to personal attacks. Show me a point I had no rebuttal for and I will gladly concede or provide for one. It's funny that people attack Rush Limbaugh though. He has done more with a GED than you ever will with a college degree and he has most likely already helped this world FAR more than you ever will.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Rudy — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:33:21 -0000

You know at first Andrew I thought you were a mindless conservative drone, I really did. You have shown me however, that you are a crazy conservative nut. You know your facts, kind of, but you pull that crazy right wing BS. You don't concede to to points you have no rebuttal to and you use sketchy logic among other things. I guess in the end I don't really care to much when it's apparent you clearly have an agenda here. But good job, I'm sure you would make comedian Rush Limbaugh proud.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Andrew — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:54:37 -0000

Thanx ^_^

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Andrew — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:53:40 -0000

Your post is not really an argument, more a statement of positions. I still feel compelled to comment on it though just to clear things up.

1. Iraq is the main battleground in the war on terror. Osama himself has said this and many of the enemy combatants over there are terrorists. Also, abandoning the Iraqis while they are trying to rebuild their government sends a horrible message to any countries in need.

2. Economy... http://www.heritage.org/Research/taxes/cda08-09...

3. Nothing to say here since you have your mind made up. Just remember that A) there is no scientific consensus on man-made climate change B) The arbiter of temperature in our solar system is the sun, not gasses that make up less than a percent of our atmosphere. Personally I think that the whole movement is just a scare tactic so scientists can get more cash from making up studies and the liberals can cash in on selling people inefficient alternative energies. I mean, the temperature on other planets is going up so I don't see why people expect us to be different.

4. Oil is good. It is highly efficient and decently plentiful. Drilling allows us to keep more of our own money. Personally I'm looking forward to Nuclear and Hydrogen power but we should use what we have. Alternative energy sources are wildly inefficient, there is practically no incentive to switch.

5. People will always hate who is in first place. Also, other countries do not choose the president and if they want to have a specific candidate then they can suck it. I know that doesn't sound like a respectful position but it is SO pretentious for other countries to think they can have a say in who we elect that all I can say to them is suck on my balls. Seriously, I DO NOT CARE. There is practically no country with a legit reason to hate us and many with legit reasons to LOVE us. If Europe hates us so much then they should pay back the Marshall Plan (adjusted for inflation).

6.Fear is necessary. A nation without fear is foolish and vulnerable. Obama didn't play on fears because he wants people to be as irrational and naive as possible.

7. I don't really understand this point. McCain took public funds so he couldn't get direct contributions to my knowledge. Just because he brainwashed enough people to donate to his campaign doesn't make him a good president.

8. Stealing money is not a good policy. Beyond that, the rich already pay the majority of the tax burden. That doesn't sound like equality to me. In this country the pay in jobs go up as the skill level required goes up, and that is as it should be. If you think that people aren't paid enough then make your own company and pay them whatever you want. We already have relative freedom of opportunity, to reward people for not taking the time to learn a trade or profession. And if you think taking money from the people who run the economy will strengthen it then you are not thinking clearly.

Other:
1. Agree

2. Agree

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Momma — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:28:09 -0000

I think I'm gonna start an Andrew fan club. :)

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Joe — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:09:53 -0000

interesting. I wonder how it would have gone if both had had equal resources. I like Obama but I can't argue that he had a HUGE money advantage.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Me — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:20:16 -0000

I'm an independent. I voted for Obama. Here's why:

1. McCain wanted to continue to fight in Iraq. That is silly, as the Taliban are based out of Afghanistan currently.

2. Economics. Granted, the president doesn't control the economics of the country directly, but he DOES greatly affect them (vetoing or not vetoing certain bills, how much he designates to be spent on various ventures, etc.)

3. Environment: Our world is dying. Straight up. This is a verified FACT. (The only ones who are doubting this are those who've been listening to propaganda that was specifically paid for by the oil companies. The vast majority of actual weather & geological scientist are telling us we're in big trouble. If you've ever heard of the frog in the pot of boiling water scenario (and if you haven't, it goes like this. A frog dropped in a pot of boiling water will jump out immediately. But one in a warm pot where the pot is turned up degree by degree, won't jump out, eventually getting boiled alive, because it doesn't have the 'jolt' factor) we are currently in the process of being boiled alive. MORE LIVES HAVE BEEN LOST TO GLOBAL WARMING THAN THE WAR IN IRAQ! Heat related deaths have taken out thousands across Europe. The ridiculous strength of the weather that hit Greensburough and New Orleans are direct results of Global warming.

4. Oil Dependence is bad. Oil in GENERAL is bad. "Drill baby drill" is NOT a responsible solution to foreign dependence on oil. We have all kinds of alternative energy solutions to oil, but we're not using them because oil is so EASY. You know what a monopoly is? It's when one thing dominates the market, not giving choice. It may not fit the full political definition, but oil dominates our travel methods. It's a monopoly that needs to be broken. The way to get off of foreign oil is to get off of oil overall. (Almost every oil use has a substitute. Electric cars to gas - electric cars are much cheaper in the long run, corn oils instead of crude oils as the basis for plastics - unfortunately a bit more expensive but much cleaner, etc.

5. What the international community thinks of us IS an important thing. Think about it, if you go around harassing your neighbors, they're going to call the cops or deal with you themselves. If a nation goes around harassing other nations, those nations are going to drop alliances with us or their people are going to fly planes into our buildings. If the U.S. is hated, there WILL be consequences. This is about playing nice instead of being the playground bully. As Americans, we should be heroes, not villains.

6. Fear. Fear is a plague across America. It's one of the safest nations in the world, and we have a population that's often paralyzed with fear. What's McCain do? He plays on our fears. He makes the epidemic worse. Obama, for the most part, didn't play on our fear, despite the fact it can often raise ratings. I respect him for that.

7. Campaign funding. Yes, Obama had one of the most well-funded campaigns in history. That in itself is an eyebrow raiser. The impressive part is when you look at WHO funded each candidate and where that money came from. Obama's campaign money was fully disclosed. Anyone could look and see who was funding him. And OVER 80% was from average Americans donating to him. That funding was raised through effectively the same method as girlscouts selling girlscout cookies. Completely honest. McCain's funding? 35% of it was undisclosed (didn't know WHO it came from, and he wouldn't tell... why?) Only 25% came from average Americans. The vast majority of the rest? Big corporations.

8. Balancing the wealth. Take money from the rich and give it to the poor? That's actually a good idea when the gap between rich and poor is growing out of control. We've reach a system where 'you have to have money to make money'. This is a BAD thing. A good system is where 'everyone has an equal chance to earn money.' Most employers do NOT pay the people an equivalent amount for the amount of money they bring in. It is NOT a matter of the rich are getting money stolen from them to give to someone who's not working, but taking money back from those (many who gained it via dubious methods) and using it to repair our tattered economy. And the poor having money does a lot for the rich in the long run ANYWAY. As the dollar becomes stronger, the overall value of the rich's money increases, even if the listed dollar amount is lower. Everyone wins with a balanced economy, the only drawback for the rich is less prestige & control over poorer people. And as a democracy, we should be about freedom.

Reasons I hesitated about Obama:
1. The space program. The space program is a vital part of not only our country, but the world's future. Obama's not doing much for it. We're on the verge of finally breaking away from being restricted to Earth. As the saying goes, "Land... they're not making more of it". We need cheap and easy space travel post haste. We're using up resources, we're running out of space with overpopulation. The main place where there is more, is up.

2. The right to bear arms. I am totally against gun control. Why? Because an armed populous serves 3 major uses. One is crime deterrient. It's been shown that when a population is armed, crime drops. Why? Because when you give someone cause for self-defense, and you know that person is likely armed, you're less likely to commit the crime. Another is that the more powerful the populace, the less likely for another country to invade. (If you have to fight a countries army AND its people, it quickly becomes not worth it). Another is government deterrent. The government can be swayed, controlled, manipulated, etc. If someone ever got 'critical mass' and took control of the government, an armed population allows chances for rebellion to be more successful. Historically, most nations that have retained freedom for the populates at large almost always had an armed populace. Yes, there are bonuses to controlling guns, but the benefits for guns outweigh the benefits against them. (Think M.A.D.D. on a more personal level, the same reason most nuclear countries aren't bombing the heck out of other nuclear countries.)

Overall, the democrats had more of the important issues this time around. (Although it was still pretty close. My 3 key issues are: Environment, Space Program and support for evolving our system towards a Direct Democracy.)

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Andrew — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:53:21 -0000

I assume he took exit polling data by state

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Lindsay — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:23:21 -0000

This is pathetic!!!!!!

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Andrew — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:13:30 -0000

I only notice something right with Oklahoma... it's always red.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

Russ — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:21:45 -0000

Interesting that you would equate private scandals with scandals of public office (in the case of Stevens) or scandals of vast ignorance (in the case of Palin). I would prefer a candidate who had an imperfect private life but had an ability to govern.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

John Doe — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 04:54:25 -0000

Interesting how the only McCain won was first. (Hmmm. Why would that be?) That pretty much lost me right there.

Re: This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like If the Election Were Decided by [Fill in the Blank]

johnnyrocket — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:50:02 -0000

Notice something wrong with Oklahoma? It's always red....in every category.

"Self-described political moderates:"?, those Oklahoman sure don't know what the political center means.